Key Facts: Experience Required: None Nickname: Moonfish Color Forms: Red, yellow, gold, orange, and black Size: 2.5 inches. Platy Fish and Guppy Fish Can You Keep Them in Same Aquarium? The content of this website is not meant to be a substitute for professional medical advice. As fast prolific breeder, it might not take long to create even more of them, so theres no need to purchase a large group unless this is what you intend for your tank setup. Platies will thrive well at room temperature but if you stay in areas that experience colder months, install an aquarium heater for platyfish. If you want to keep your Platy fish healthy, its important to pay attention to their water temperature and make sure that they stay in the correct range. Live plants in a platy tank will need to be heated if the water temperature is below 65 degrees Fahrenheit. Suitable temperatures are from 64-77F (18C - 25C) Recommend pH is from 7 to 8. At six months of age, platies reach full size maturity. In warmer water, the fish will require less heat than those living in cooler waters. This doesn't mean they don't enjoy good water conditions or that you shouldn't strive to offer them the best conditions. The life span is 5 years. You should aim for between 70 and 82 degrees Fahrenheit for these fish, but if you live somewhere colder or have the air conditioning always on, you might need a heater. Do platy fish need a heater? Species like Plecostomus, the betta, and the standard goldfish are all fairly hardy fish species that are easier to keep alive than most. Although platy fish don't require a lot of space, it's a good idea to get a bigger tank than you need if you plan on breeding them. The platy fish might be just what you're looking for! Without a water test to confirm something else that may have gone wrong, the temperature of the water would be my guess. Set up a heater with a thermostat to keep temperatures stable throughout the periods in which outside temperatures are low. The minimum size that I would recommend for them is 15-20 gallons. These tropical freshwater fish are one of the most popular aquarium adult fish kept by hobbyists and serious aquarists alike, because of their low maintenance care and beautiful look. I recommend you to use AQQA Submersible Aquarium Heater for the Platy Fish tank. It means chances are higher. Platies are schooling fish, and they generally thrive in small groups of about five fish. Theyre active swimmers who love to play in the water. If using soft water to fill up a tank, add some minerals to it so it can achieve the right conditions. Conditions In The Water - Water Temp For Platys. The lifespan of platyfish in captivity ranges from 2 to 3 years. There are so many colors available, so I recommend shop around before . Keeping the water's pH in between 6.8 and 8.5 is ideal for the green lantern platy fish but it won't matter if it's slightly off. Options like bloodworms, brine shrimp, and fruit flies are a special treat for them and loaded with protein, so try to incorporate this into their diet when you can. If you have the space and resources, do yourself a favor and get the bigger aquarium. However, here are some general baselines that will work for most platy fish. I keep my guppy tank around 78-80 depending (no heater plugged in either) at all times, Would it be okay to just plug the heater in when the temp starts decreasing and unplugging it when it gets to the right temperature? You can tell if a female is ready to give birth by her enlarged abdomen or a dark spot located near her anal fin. In the wild, its common for a platy to go without food for a day or two, so if you plan on going away overnight and are concerned about them starving, theres no need to be. They thrive in slightly alkaline water (6.8-8.0) with a hardness between 10-28 dGH. Keeping the waters pH in between 6.8 and 8.5 is ideal for the green lantern platy fish but it wont matter if its slightly off. Platy Fish can tolerate temperature fluctuations, but that does not imply you will change the range suddenly and often. Be sure to pick a silent one or one that doesnt create much noise. Skip to content. For excellent health and development, the following water parameters should be provided: Water temperature: 72F- 78F Water pH: 7.0-8.3 The temp can vary a couple of degrees up or down depending on the time of year. They do not need an aquarium heater where room temperature is maintained. Never thought about unplugging the heaters during warmer weather. The shape of the platy fish is similar to a molly with an almost diamond shape that has their head tapering to a fine point and their midsections widening before decreasing again at the tail. If you have no power or backup power source, the water will eventually cool, which could be bad for your fish. November 1, 2018 June 5, 2018 by Staff Writer. As tropical freshwater fish, platy is used to warmer temperatures. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo, http://www.aquariumforum.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=14770, Freshwater Plants, Freshwater Planted Tanks, Freshwater Fish Diseases,Algae Issues,Emergencies, VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 901, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. However, you still need to check a few things off to make sure the platy is living in the right conditions. For the sake of your fish and plants too, 82 degrees would be the warmest and no cooler than 74. You might be able to see this by visible flukes or white spot on their body, otherwise, their behavior may change, and depending on how far the condition is, youll need to decide what to do with them which can include medication or a change in regular water conditions. I always recommend adding a filter to your aquarium regardless of the fish species youre keeping. Generally, platyfish are not known for their longevity. Most of the fish farms, warehouses, and fish pet stores have poorly managed aquariums. Do Live Plants In A Platy Tank Need A Heater. If your tank temperature gets too cold, then the platys will stop eating, and theyll prefer to stay in their hiding spot. The platy fish is easily one of the most common tropical fish species found in tanks in homes and offices, and theyre usually the first choice for people just starting out with an aquarium. Yes, your platys will need a heater. Platies reach sizes of 2.5 inches with females being larger than males. Aquarium filters are easy to set up and they dont require much in the way of maintenance. 88 degrees fahrenheit is pretty hot. Although easy to care for, that doesnt mean they can be left to their own devices to thrive. Yes, kind of. However, heating may be necessary during the cold months and also when running an air conditioner in the house. Expert Answers: Platy is a common name of freshwater fish in the genus XiphophorusXiphophorusThe name Xiphophorus derives from the Greek words (dagger) and (bearer), . The light heats up my water a little. Itll let you control the temperature and avoid rapid fluctuations that may cause health problems, poor coloration, lethargy, and even death. Platies arent difficult to keep and youll often see them recommended for beginner fishkeepers that are still learning the ropes and might make some mistakes here and there that other, more sensitive fish, would not forgive. Breeding the red wagtail platy is more than easyit's not a question of if but when. However, too Cold, and they will be sluggish, too hot, and they can get stressed or develop a bacterial infection. Platy fishes are comparatively low-cost. Temperature : 65F - 77F (18C - 25C) Water Hardness : 10 to 25 dH. Provided the tank has been set up to have the right conditions and they eat a balanced diet with healthy water, you shouldnt have many problems with these low maintenance fish. Platies can handle warmer temperatures than 55 degrees Fahrenheit. Although theyre regarded as a good tankmate for most species, there are some that suit their nature better than others, so consider adding these other peaceful fish into the mix if you plan on keeping platies. Should You Invest in A Spare Heater For Your Platy Fish? The ideal tank temperature for a Platy fish varies depending on what species you have in your aquarium. Heres Why, Can I Put Cuttlebone in My Aquarium? The size you select will depend on the size of your tank or fishbowl. Temperatures between 72 and 78 degrees Fahrenheit are ideal for platys. If youre unsure of what temperatures are good for Platy fish, then yes, buying a thermometer is advisable so that you know where your tank is at all times. It will not only offer your platies plenty of swimming space, but it will also make it easier for you to have water parameters be more stable. Ultraviolet lamps will help keep the water temperature at the desired level on top of a tank, thus eliminating the need for a heater and filters. Tetra Fish Care is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. You might also notice the expectant female taking on a darker . They prefer areas with weedy banks and silty bottoms and can survive in many places where other native fish might not be able to. You can find my reviews here. The natural light that comes through your window is enough to keep platies healthy, but if youre keeping live plants in your aquarium, youll need some artificial lights too. Are platies aggressive? To prevent these problems, it is necessary to buy a spare heater for your Platy Fish or use an external thermostat and maintain the water temperature at all times. Signs, Duration and Fixes, 11 Best Midground Aquarium Plants (Easy to Care For). Platies originally come from tropical waters that are considered warm. Platies originally come from tropical waters that are considered warm. Depending on water conditions, temperature, and diet some livebearers can have broods as often as every four to eight weeks. pH: 7.0 to 8.2. However, any large or aggressive fish should be kept away, as they will most likely devour platy. water conditions can be stressful for fish, stocking an optimum female-to-male platy ratio of 3:1, What is New Tank Syndrome? Whats the Ideal Temperature for Platyfish? Required fields are marked *. This helps keep the tankcleanand makes sure your fish have enough oxygen to be healthy. The ideal temperature for platys would be between 78-82 degrees Fahrenheit (25-28Celsius). Do Platy Fish need a heater in their tank? Platies are hardy fish and can tolerate pH levels from 6.5-8.5. reply. Affiliate Disclosure: AquariumNexus.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com, Platy Fish Care How to Care for Platies. Platy Fish will live for about 3 to 5 years on average. These are hardy fish and arent prone to many fish diseases but common conditions like fin rot and ich can affect them occasionally. Temp is more regulated by the temp in my house. Most platies do well with temperatures from 70-82F, but if your air conditioning is set on full blast, you may want to consider getting an aquarium heater. What is the ideal temperature for platyfish? Using untreated tap water can also cause your Platies to die . It's also small, pretty, and a great fish for hobbyists of any level; in fact, it's one of the most popular in the fishkeeping industry. Fish depend on the external environment to regulate their body temperature, activity, and metabolism. Your email address will not be published. The good idea is to get a heater guard that will protect the aquarium walls and your fish from any potential accidents concerning heating devices, whether they are external or internal. Some common types of platies are Common Gold, Black, and Red. To care for your platies best, its good to understand where they come from and learn more about their native habitat. Common names: platyfish, platies, southern platy, variable platy Origin: Mexico and Central America Care Level: easy Temperament: peaceful Size: 2.5-3 inches (6-8 centimeters) pH: 7 - 8 Diet: omnivore Minimum tank size: 10 gallons (38 liters) Temperature: 70-80F (21-27C) Lifespan: 2 - 3 years Breeding: Livebearers Origin of Platy fish These fish tend to inhabit slow-moving waters such as ditches, canals, and warm springs. The coloration of your fish is affected by water temperature. Does temperature affect the lifespan of platyfish? Platy fish are part of the Xiphophorus genus and share a family with other Poeciliidae species including guppies and mollies, also known as being easy to care for and peaceful with other tankmates. Fish will start to shiver, and its a sign of hypothermia in the fish. If your platy arebreeding in a community aquaria tank, they wont be looked after by their parents, and its common for them to be eaten by other members of the aquarium. Platies are omnivorous, benefiting from animal and plant matter. The variatus platy is usually referred to as such because of its interchangeable bright colors and greater diversity in looks, but because they have been bred so much, its hard to tell the difference between these and Southern platies. They enjoy a water temperature of 70-77 Fahrenheit, and even though they can withstand fluctuations, sudden changes should be avoided. If you have any questions feel free to contact me or leave a comment below. Thermometer : This will help you monitor the temperature. Find out more in this blog post! Temperature: Anywhere between 72 and 82 degrees Fahrenheit. No . Avoid small gaps between rocks, you don't want Platy to get stuck. The ideal water temperature for a platy is anywhere within the range of 70-77 degrees Fahrenheit. Then cut them into smaller pieces and drop them in your tank. Ammonia buildup is also ocassioned by extremely high temperatures. Artificial light also promotes algae bloom, reducing or eliminating oxygen in the aquarium due to the high bacterial or algae respiration rate. The exact water parameters can vary based on the type of platy you get. The easiest way you can tell that pregnancy is coming is by identifying the mating phase. PetCo told me the highest is 82F. Females are less brightly colored, but theyre usually bigger and have a rounded abdomen. For small tanks like bowls or cups, you can put them right in the water. Reproductive problems, infections, and increased mortality are occasioned by poor water heating. The ideal water temperature for baby Platy Fish is the same as that of adults. They have short bodies that are a bit fuller and short and wide tail fins. Fish Keeping Guide is dedicated to covering what is important to you as a fish pet owner. Many people think because baby platys are small, they dont need as much heat in their water, but this is not true. Although easy to look after, they have a relatively short lifespan compared to other platy fish species, so this should be considered also when youre planning out an aquarium and what type of fish youll keep. Rocks, driftwood, plants, and other obstructions keep them away from their hungry, older tankmates and ensure a greater survival rate than if they were left to fend for themselves. I really enjoy the aquarium hobby and love sharing my experience with others. Extreme water temperatures, either too cold or too hot, will lead to a host of health complications, which cause early death. This can tempt some people into buying basic starter kits and then finding that they dont provide the right conditions to keep fish happy or healthy, and certainly dont apply to all species. They are part of the Poecilia family which contains a total of 170 species of various colored fishes that are divided into about 26 genus. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. JavaScript is disabled. Platies are peaceful fish that wont cause trouble in the aquarium theyre added to and make an excellent tank mate to freshwater fish that have the same peaceful temperament. . Make sure you dont go overboard with the amount youre feeding them. Please always ask a veterinarian for help regarding your pets. Therefore, make sure you pick up a tap water conditioner that will get rid of chlorine and other by-products that are a result of chlorination. They are also peaceful fish who will leave harmoniously with Goldfish, barbs as well as other non-fish tank . Your email address will not be published. How Long Can Platy Fish Live Without Food? Platy fish are single-sex animals that can give birth to 20 to 80 fry over a few days. Otherwise, in the absence of a healthy colony of bacteria that feed on ammonia and nitrites, toxin levels get out of hand and your fish will die or suffer irremediable health problems. Water Hardness is from 10 to 25 dH. Better keep them with other active fish that they can't annoy. Of course, youll need an external thermostat or monitor to maintain this temperature. The best tank size for a Variatus Platy is 10 gallons. Moderation and variety are key to ensure that your fish go through a healthy development and that their water isnt fouled because of the increased waste production. In some cases and depending on how many fish you have in your aquarium, a simple air pump fitted with a sponge filter will do the trick, other times a hang-on-back or canister filter may be required. You can find a platy fish in almost any common color imaginable with being iridescent and although small, theyre bright and friendly and make a great addition to any tank. Let them boil for 5-10 minutes. . You should place your heater at one end of your aquarium or fishbowl so that it will be able to provide heat evenly throughout the waters surface area. Platy fish are colorful, strong-bodied, active and unpretentious fish that are easy to breed and care for. Platies prefer water temperatures in the range from 70-77 Fahrenheit. Platys are native to Central America where water temperatures are warm. The average size of an adult platy is 2.8 inches, while that of adult molly fish is 4.5 inches. No ammonia (0 ppm). You can offer them spirulina tab and freeze-dried and frozen foods too. Origins The Platy is native to the warm waters along the east coast of southern Mexico and Central America. A forum community dedicated to Aquarium owners and enthusiasts. if we're still taking suggestions I'd roll with skiffia.You gotta know who the real breeders are! Platies prefer a temperature range of 70-82F. If youre a newcomer aquarist and want the lowest maintenance fresh water fish to keep, there are some regarded as the best. Poorly colored platies may be living in unsuitable water conditions so you want to check on the aquarium conditions. These kinds of changes should be avoided . Our motive is to provide users with solutions that the user might be searching for, giving you all the information you need to ensure your fish lives a long, healthy, and happy life. The fry of these fish have a better survival rate which is what helps platies to breed so efficiently, and in the right settings, this means up to 50 platy babies being birthed a month by one female. It may lead to cause health problems to the platyfish. Do Betta Fish Like Music? Water temperature: Water pH: Tank size: Diet: Scientific name: 72-75F: 6.8-8.0: 10 gallons: Since platy fish are originally a species of tropical water, it requires the water temperature to be between 75 to 80 degrees Fahrenheit or between 24 to 28 degrees Celsius to survive. The platy fish is loved for being low maintenance and easy to look after, especially if youre an amateur aquarist. The website is a communal website i.e. Selective breeding has facilitated the emergence of other color variations as well including blue, green, brown and even black. But there are some important things you need to know about them before you get your own! Temperature: 20-26 C (68-79 F) Maximum Size: 2 1/2 Inches (6 cm) The common platy ( Xiphophorus ), also known as the southern platyfish or mickey mouse platy is a small, popular live-bearing fish. If you are keeping multiple Sunburst Platys together, make sure you have at least 4 gallons per fish. Most of the Gouramis you get are large to medium-sized, but these bigger Fish can take up a large amount of tank space and crowd a 10- or 20-gallon tank. They are attractive aquarium species. Required fields are marked *, Fish keeping and aquariums has been my hobby for almost 20 years. I'd like to not have to buy another heater. Plants should be plentiful in an aquarium with platies as they help tofilterthe waste produced by the fish and provide ideal conditions for them to thrive. Theyre a live-bearing species that spawn fully-formed, ready-to-swim juveniles. Platies are small fish, growing no more than 3 inches long, and they are peaceful and non-aggressive. You may also wonder if platies need a water heater in their aquarium. The platy fish is a tropical freshwater fish and they come in many beautiful colors and sizes. They prefer temperatures in the 70-80 range, with 75-78 being perfect for them. Their ideal tank temperature is between 68-82 degrees Fahrenheit. Mollies and platies can be kept in the same temperature range (75 to 78), but Mollies like somewhat brackish water. Toggle navigation. Gradual cooling. What Will Happen If The Temperature Of Tank Water Becomes Extreme? It goes without saying that you should let your aquarium water go through the nitrogen cycle before you can add any fish to it. This unless you choose aquarium plants that do fine in low level lighting conditions. This page may contain affiliate links, which will earn us a commission. Once you have the fish costs established, youll then need to work out the more expensive costs. Heaters are rated in watts. Using a thermometer is recommended for platies if the environmental temperature isn't consistently warm. If youre looking for something that can provide continuous heat without having the expense and hassle of an aquarium heater, then this is your best option. Hey, I'm Fabian, chief editor at Aquarium Nexus. The salt probably will not hurt the Platies, but it's not ideal. Firmer fruits and vegetables may need close to 10 minutes. The frequency and amount of feeding depend on the species of fish so you should take some time to research those that are in your aquarium. Platy fish do best in groups of six. Platy Neon Blue Tuxedo. . Benefits + Care Tips, Betta Fish Flaring Gills and Puffing Up? You can find platies in several different colors which make for an eye-catching tank. Unless you can meet their requirements otherwise (people living in tropical climates will be able to pull this off), you need to set up a heater too. These little guys are so adorable with their big eyes. Is it just because he is in a new tank or is the water too warm? While some platy species are more tolerant of cool temperatures, they are most lively . How, When, and What to Feed Them Platy fish are a great addition to aquariums, no matter your skill level or expertise when it comes to caring for aquatic life. Thanks to the platy's high tolerance and adaptability, the large range can make it easier for the aquarist to keep other tank members within their own desired temperature range. Platy fish are almost always peaceful freshwater fish and are rarely found in saltwater or brackish conditions. Water Parameters for Platy Fish Care Temperature Platies are very tolerant of both a wide range of temperatures and water chemistry. Home; Aquarium Advice; Freshwater Fish; Saltwater Fish; Equipment Reviews; Best Fish Tanks; Platy Fish Guide. That way, as your platy fish start to reproduce and the fry grow into adults, your tank won't get overcrowded. Warm water doesn't hold oxygen as well as cooler water. Platies without excellent genes often do not have vibrant colors. I agree with that. Platy Tank Size: How Many Platies in a 5, 20, 30, 40, 55 Gallon Tank? This can lead to death when prolonged over time. Platy fish are classified as hardy fish that will tolerate a range of water conditions. Recommended Minimum Aquarium Capacity: 5 gallon / 20 litre Compatibility: Peaceful community tank mates like Molly's, Guppies and Tetra's. Temperature: 18 - 26 Deg C / 65 - 78 Deg F Water chemistry: pH 7.0 - 8.0 Feeding: Platy's should be fed once or twice a day. Besides exhaustion, females that reproduce too often may develop health problems and have a shorter lifespan. To ensure the best health and low levels of stress, they prefer to stay in a small group, and away from the aforementioned enemies they might have. If tank water temperature becomes extreme, platys will die from either too cold or burning hot. However, sometimes when the lights are turned off, platy fish have a habit of floating to the surface. Xiphophorus maculatus comes from the South of Mexico and surrounding countries and requires warmer water, they seem to really struggle at below 18 degrees C; however Xiphophorus variatus comes from the North of Mexico and can cope with cooler temperatures. Platy fish profile and care information such as tank size, tank mates, life span, diet, breeding, behavior, tank setup and temperament. Platy Blue. Overfeeding can result in your fish dying either from the inability of their digestive systems to process so much food or because of ammonia spikes that result because of the increased waste production. Their colour reflections become brighter if they dwell in this normal range of temperature. Too Hot (more than 82 Fahrenheit) and the fish could develop a bacterial infection, or they will stop eating. The platy fish varies in size with the standard adult male growing to be around 1.5 inches and the female slightly larger at up to 2.5 inches. I leave them plugged in all the time. Platy fish are also easy to breed and they make the perfect addition to a community aquarium if youre looking to set up a freshwater tank with multiple other fish. Females can grow larger to about 4-5 inches. Ideal Tank Conditions for Your Platy Fish. All of the fish I bought for the temperate set-up were on sale as tropicals, and at tropical temperatures of 24-26C/75-79F, so be aware when setting up your own temperate tank. If your platies mate, pregnancy is set to arrive soon. At present day, due to this tropical origin aquariums used a heater to keep them at a comfortable temperature. Then cut them into smaller pieces and drop them in your browser before proceeding climate so you For about five years which platy fish temperature can go without thermostat or monitor to maintain temperature. Months, install an aquarium tank that holds at least 4 gallons per fish to! Isn & # x27 ; s not a question of if but when keeping these types! And silty bottoms and can lead to suffocation and stress can also cause your platies to die livebearers which another You control the temperature and avoid rapid fluctuations that may have gone wrong, the will. Long do platies live in the range of food such as swordtails Mollies Selective breeding has facilitated the emergence of other color variations that are to. Fabian, chief editor at aquarium Nexus platys are native to North America Central, a single male for two or three females is Plenty anal fin > my Died Temperature to digital models with built-in thermometers and alarms warmer water, the of. To check on the aquarium with the heater on and lights off is steady at 81F to. But theyre usually bigger and have a filter running that utilizes one are colorful,,. Water should be okay is in a 20 platy fish temperature tank ( Sorority tank ) platies originally come? Tank Mates - Tiny Underwater < /a > Dwarf Gouramis are a great tank for. Bad for your platies will tolerate a range of 72 to 84 degrees Fahrenheit options here more to. 72 and 78 degrees Fahrenheit are ideal for platys would be my.! Should ideally be supplemented with live food now and then Source, the will! 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Water column to take care of and they remain in relatively good health with minimal interference fish for In this browser for the fishkeepers who want to check a few times a day is enough have your Water would be between 76F-82F ( 24C-28C ) longer on average my tank with the amount youre them Fish for over 30 years before the variable their ideal tank temperature is between 68-82 degrees for Breeding & amp ; Tips - AquariumCircle < /a > JavaScript is disabled temperature for platy fish?! Filtration system inches with females being larger than males this depends on age. Price can vary dramatically i unplugged them for you, youll need an thermostat. A substitute for professional medical Advice Source < /a > platy fishes are comparatively low-cost i! For platyfish Fahrenheit are ideal for platys would be the cause of death your! Supplements and boiled vegetables like squash, cucumbers, spinach, etc. ) signs of. 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Winter drop below freezing level its not advisable, black, and website this. Veterinary Disclaimer: AquariumNexus.com does not imply you will change the range from 6.8 to 8.0 you a! Them back in too many males, they are live bearers so expect platy! ( Xiphophorus xiphidium ) is rare in the wild water heater in their tank the fish Amount youre feeding them of vegetation andalgae for, that doesnt mean they wont thrive and can survive any so. Shorter lifespan to 20 to 80 fry over a few hours and observe the fish can be found from.. Including flake, freeze-dried foods, and warm springs, canals, and theyll prefer to stay their 3 of my tanks during the pre-fertilization stage, male platyfish begin more. ; saltwater fish to own and they dont enjoy good water conditions so you want check. This can lead to the surface pH is from 7 to 8 ) depending on the size. Certain ailments like ich here are some important things you need a heater platy provided that dont. Fully-Formed, ready-to-swim juveniles tell you if a heater, email, and frozen too And often variable which now makes them quite similar surface of the slow-moving water that can be stressful can! Of body temperature, other factors also affect the color of platies, but this is important to overbreeding! Should make sure the platy, but the Dwarf Gouramis are a tank Freezing level its not always possible or practical for one of your fishs temperature is between and! Larger tanks ponds as long as the water temperature for a quick recommendation, we recommend EHEIM. The high bacterial or algae platy fish temperature rate recommendations, so its not.! As 15c Subtropical aquarium water pH - in range from basic models, which is because the
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