Even if the number was exaggerated, clues
Absent that, I suspect that youre just engaging in what psychologists call projection. War Crimes: Violations of the laws or customs of law which include . Gas mask-clad soldiers stay low to the ground as they prepare for combat. Franklin G. Nickerson III/National Archives. However, the fact that these Vietnam War photos were not intended for publication suggests that photographic units and their commanders perhaps had less incentive to misrepresent or sanitize American military actions in conflict zones. Thanh Dien. Our treatment of Vietnamese civilians, as mentioned in the article, was criminal, but I see no evidence that American soldiers are treating Iraqis anything like the same way at all. gook rule" which held that "If it's dead and Vietnamese, it's VC." One young marine was assigned the job of keeping the flies at bay. Certainly, war crimes, such as murder, rape and mutilation were not an
He did leave the Navy early to pursue a political career; he did join the Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW); he did claim during his 1971 Senate testimony that American soldiers committed atrocities in Vietnam on a regular basis; he did participate in numerous instances of political theater put on by the VVAW, including Dewey Canyon III; and he did meet with representatives of the North Vietnamese communist government. MI personnel Norman Bowers, Franciszek Pyclik and Eberhard Gasper who were all
As to the 1957 elections that didn't happen, that the Minh would have won is debatable. Karsten, Peter. They would then drive north through the outskirts of Nasiriya to a second bridge, over the Inahr al-Furbati canal. It is easy for the reader to imagine that some soldiers will commit war crimes when engaged in armed conflict. . Further, it must also be recognized that the "Tiger Force" atrocities,
The assailants used . Only after the publication of Seymour Hersh's seminal article did the Army truly begin to investigate. The soldier
Jeff Albertson Photograph Collection (PH 57). Fed up, Burkett did something that any reporter worth his or her salt could have done: he used the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) to check the actual records of the image makers used by reporters to flesh out their stories on homelessness, Agent Orange, suicide, drug abuse, criminality, or alcoholism. resign from military service during the criminal investigations specifically to
Published September 2019. Some atrocity claims were the product of outright fantasy, on the part of soldiers who returned from the war emotionally disturbed. A November 1966 incident in which an officer in the Army's Fourth Infantry
literature or as tacitly alluded to in the Blade articles. But they do not prove that atrocities in Vietnam were more widespread than in previous wars. There were many young men who refused to do so. Votes: 253,108 | Gross: $47.21M. It is surprizing to me, and disturbing, that the unit described here was apparently all American, and professional Army - shameful! after six months, Bumgarner promptly re-enlisted in the Army. And with 100+ scenarios, we hope there's something for everyone to dive in. come on stevie, You wrote:
It took 30 years for the Tiger Force atrocities and those in the above article to surface. A horrific scene lay ahead. John Kerrys decision to run for president on his record in Vietnam has ripped the scab off of the wounds that war inflicted on the American body politic. The Ap Loc incident I referred to above involved communists as persecutors, and animists as victims. Twenty-four hours earlier it would almost certainly have been denied: now it was granted. The fact is that anyone who has been in combat understands the thin line between permissible acts and atrocity. He was convicted only of manslaughter and his punishment consisted
Judges declared that to stand trial before a court martial after separation from the military was unconstitutional. With tears in his eyes and blood splattered over his flak jacket, he held the remains of his friend in his arms until someone gave him a poncho to wrap them with. Unfortunately, however, thats not the problem. Mr. MacKenzie wrote:
They also ruminated on what they had done. were also by no means as exceptional as often portrayed in recent historical
Hersh, Seymour. After all, the soldier who broke the My Lai story was not present during the massacre. The response of the intellectual left to Russia's war against Ukraine has largely involved blaming NATO, an aversion to any kind of military involvement, and generic calls to pacifism. the "Tiger Force" atrocities were not the mere result of "Rogue
I do read the news. Veterans dont tell these stories. I knew you couldn;t debate. a mass of young,afraid and angry men, many of which were using drugs, punted into an alien land with alien people. phase of war and young American . Doctors, priests, and teachers were expecially targeted. "What we did to that country,needlessly." If he has researched this issue as thoroughly as he claims to have, I would have to conclude that he calculatingly misled his audience by falsely implying that American military authorities were unwilling to prosecute, convict, and harshly sentence, whenever possible, soldiers who committed war crimes. Allow me express the concern that our present government is repeating this kind of treatment of civilians now, in Iraq. Edited September 2021. Unfortunately, the articles tell a story that was all too common. July 1970. I was with Alpha company. A lorry filled with sacks of wheat made the fatal mistake of driving through US lines. Indeed, Burkett discovered that over the last decade, some 1,700 individuals, including some of the most prominent examples of the Vietnam veteran as dysfunctional loser, had fabricated their war stories. The record of this carnage is extensively documented. That is a big difference with regard to V. Still, the result seems headed towards Iraqisation as an exit strategy, with the likely sequel being a three way conflict. who was named in seven of the thirty "Tiger Force" war crimes allegations
Check out the newest Dispatch book, Nick Turses The Changing Face of Empire: Special Ops, Drones, Proxy Fighters, Secret Bases, and Cyberwarfare. and they found many Western intellectuals only too willing to accept every conceivable allegation of [American] wrongdoing at face value." Slowly we approached the first bridge. )presented with the temptation to kill unnecessarily I not only never did so, never even considered doing so. In all probability, the homes of these civilians are being burned down out of frame. The Army Criminal Investigation Division (CID) investigated war-crime allegations against Tiger Force and found that 18 soldiers had perpetrated crimes, though none were ever charged. What does it say about men? were substantiated, leading to 21 convictions according to a review of records
Many had never even been in the service. We must be able to trust the military to wield violence with purpose and responsibility. And is why the Left is always on the side of America's enemies. For decades we knew nothing of their crimes, so we know less than we should about the Vietnam War and about war in general. More Indo-Chinese died during the first two years of the commie "peace" than during the ten years of American involvement. The record of these crimes, given by veterans of all kinds, illustrated the broader immorality of the war. As is often the case, Jim Webb, a Marine hero of the Vietnam War (Navy Cross) and best-selling author whose novel, Fields of Fire is the best book about Vietnam, got to the crux of the matter in a recent NPR commentary when he said that the stories of atrocious conduct, repeated in lurid detail by Kerry before the Congress, represented not the typical experience of the American soldier, but its ugly extreme (emphasis added)
On the bridge itself a dead Iraqi civilian lay next to the carcass of a donkey. Maybe youve got Multiple Personality Disorder. According to FactCheck.org., Keith Nolan, author of 10 published books on Vietnam, says he's heard many veterans describe atrocities just like those Kerry recounted from the Winter Soldier event. Again the marines fired. There was no investigation or testimony given regarding the crimes committed by North Vietnam and the National Liberation Front. Selective indignation, raises questions, that's all. This short list, however,
Instead they had found themselves lured into a bloody battle, culminating in the worst coalition losses of the war - 16 dead, 12 wounded and two missing marines as well as five dead and 12 missing servicemen from an army convoy - and the humiliation of having prisoners paraded on Iraqi television. Perhaps the most striking is the endgame. He toured barracks. On October 19, 2003, the Ohio-based newspaper the Toledo Blade launched
Get in there. In contrast, those running the CCI claimed that war crimes were not only fairly common but the direct result of military policies. I would never have written my first NRO piece back in January had Kerry chosen to run on his Senate record. It is thumos, awakened by the death of his comrade Patroclus that causes Achilles to quit sulking in his tent and wade into the Trojans, slaughtering them in great numbers. Behind us, two 68-ton Abrams tanks rolled up, crushing the barrier separating the lanes on the highway. Members of the tribunal developed a list of questions about the actions of the United States and its allies in Southeast Asia. to U.S.-perpetrated war crimes in Vietnam. Several marines who had lost their vehicles piled into the back of ours. Just like it is in the above article! But in soldiers, fear is overcome by what the Greeks called thumos, spiritedness or righteous indignation. To stay on top of important articles like these, sign up to receive the latest updates from TomDispatch.com here. Only a couple weeks ago I heard that
Brodywatcher, Steve-o, Read the News or whatever name youre now using, Im not inclined to educate someone like you, who is to lazy to read the newspaper and to dishonest to accurately summarize it when you do. Chu Lai. Also, outside of the Sunni triangle, there seems to be relative peace and tranquility. Sage Publications, 2005. Additionally, there is no evidence that atrocities were a matter of policy, as suggested in this September 1970 VVAW flyer issued in conjunction with one of its stunts:
Or certainly won't be surprised when it happens. They had expected a welcome, or at least a swift surrender. Kerrey had ordered the civilians to be rounded up and then shot point blank to facilitate the SEAL team's escape. The driver was killed instantly. He was, so the argument went, merely relating stories told by others. We are doing the same thing in I. I agree with Mr Brody here, there's no comparison to make - yet, and let's hope never. Records indicate he got his wish! "Did you see that little baby girl? When the American soldiers stopped, the Iraqis pulled out AK-47s and sprayed the US trucks with gunfire. Dont miss the next Ask Mr. History question! 3 The President: You had prisoners tortured. This piece is six months old, and it is likely that the situation has grown much worse rather than better. Numerous numbers of Vietnamese were raped by the US soldiers during. It always does Brody! "Toth v. They were not honorable men who took pride in their service, but whining welfare cases, belly-aching about what an immoral government did to them. The Forgotten Hero of My Lai: The Hugh Thompson Story. War, I have been immersed in just the sort of archival materials the Toledo
Next morning I saw the result of this order - the dead civilians, the little girl in the orange and gold dress. In reality, it is a collection of ideas, images, and information that enough people have chosen to preserve and disseminate. "We are going in, we are going in," shouted one of the officers. The heavy, thick rear ramp had been blown open. An armored helicopter prepares to land troops in an area where a suspected Viet Cong outpost is located. Some marines reached for their disposable cameras. Since 1978, Nolan has interviewed roughly 1,000 veterans in depth for his books, and spoken to thousands of others. One item which I consider evidence is the fact that our military authorities are not interested even in counting the number of civilians killed, let alone in determining how they were killed or with what justification. Division over the course of seven months in 1967. Later, we shared a bumpy ride across the desert in the back of a Humvee. My Lai 4: A Report on the Massacre and Its Aftermath. are labeled as "Rogue GIs" and the authors simply mention the that
We all need to hear it. Those that did cooperate never provided details of actual crimes to investigators. Captain Mike Brooks, commander of Alpha company, pinned down in front of the mosque, called in tank support. Santayana, paraphrasing Plato, contradicting Wilson's "War to end all wars":
"Only the dead have seen the end of war". No, I won't get hold of one. by American MI interrogator of the Army's 196th Infantry Brigade. 06 Nov 2022 15:49:45 There is no shortage of stories from Southerners concerning mass rapes by NVA/VC units, nor the abduction and forced conscription of young men and women, many of whom simply never returned. I know you enjoy it, Curtis heard one of them say before he blacked out from the pain. Many of the attacks on America's efforts in Vietnam could be use in reference to the Korean War. Brooks, 34, from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, had been in command of 200 men for just over a year. third reason is the visible tip of the iceberg that we can see. The vehicles wheeled round, took up a defensive position, back to back, and began taking fire. Because you can see that our fall fundraising drive is well behind the $325,000 we need to raise. Likewise, I think I can understand a little something of the factors that led him to quit the Army in face of his experiences in exotic Indochina. "And Babies" is a poster designed by anti-war activists. I mean that in every sense of the word. Heavy machinegun fire echoed across the huge rubbish dump that marks the entrance to Nasiriya. During the period of 1965-75 rice production increased in the South along with the standard of living. My skepticism about the WSI was further strengthened by the publication of Stolen Valor by H.G. court martial proceedings. He was, however, sentenced to
"I am starting to hate this country. In fact, in 1972, Bowers's commanding general pronounced that "no disciplinary
Let me give you a piece of advice, Mike, if you go to Iraq, dont approach soldiers right after theyve been fired on with a video camera on your shoulder. let alone punishment, for their alleged actions. Two American medics remove a wounded Viet Cong fighter from a Medivac helicopter. Nothing like what was described in this article is alleged in the Marine Courts martial. massacre at Son Thang -- sometimes referred to as the "Marine Corps' My
A third reason is the visible tip of the iceberg that we can see. "I saw one case where a woman was shot by a sniper, one of our snipers. She then crossed back again with the child and went behind a wall. As a historian
Victor Davis Hanson, _Carnage and Culture_ Hanson goes on to relate how the omnipresent Western media missed this story. When he came to jotting down the incident about the two babies getting killed by his men he couldn't do it. The battle of Song Mao, (May '70) involved Catholics against (perhaps, nominally, maybe-kinda-sorta) communists, in which 5,000 of the latter, recently marched down from North Vietnam, perished in a mini-Cannae. The next morning, we found the rest of the village in shock, and the poor victim had not even been buried. And that includes all of your various personalities. As we set off towards the eastern city gate there was no sense of the mayhem awaiting us down the road. We might have shot you
to dereliction of duty. US soldiers fought for democracy and the freedom of other nations. i fear iraq may be viewed in a simalar light in years to come, I certainly hope people take these comments seriously. What if war part of human nature? Earlier that morning a US Army convoy had been greeted by a group of Iraqis dressed in civilian clothes, apparently wanting to surrender. Next morning, the men of Alpha company talked about the fighting over MREs (meals ready to eat). The war in Korea claimed as many lives, and more destruction, in a shorter period of time. The marines would speed unhindered over the 130 miles of desert up from the Kuwaiti border and approach Nasiriya from the southeast to secure a bridge over the Euphrates. We charged onto the bridge, and as we crossed the Euphrates, a large mural of Saddam came into view. Corporations and billionaires dont fund journalism like ours that exists to shake things up. Click the full post to read liner notes, links to more information, and a transcript of the episode. Just how many such rapes occurred, well never know, because such acts were and generally still are kept secret. He began to rape him and was heard to exclaim that it was really good, it was tight. After the private was finished, the private first class raped Curtis. Warm regards,
Your gift, and all online donations up $94,000 total, will be matched and go twice as farbut only until the November 9 deadline. Mr. Kerrey's admission was prompted by a lengthy New York Times Magazine story by Gregory Vistica that went farther than the charge that civilians died during this action. The French colonial period in Vietnam officially began in 1887, when Vietnam was referred to as French Indochina. Ho's agenda was to unify Indo-China under his rule, regardless of the cost. But then we have this piece from the LA Times piece which can be found here:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/
commentary/la-oe-cockburn19nov19,1,6982826.story
It begins with a quote from a "senior official closely involved in the search for an exit strategy." The coalition could then start moving thousands of troops and logistical support units up highway 7, leading to Baghdad, 225 miles to the north. sure as long as you agree to shut your mouth for the next 30 years! Here's a Crazy Bigot special question. The French Indochina War in Vietnam 1.0. One room had a map of Nasiriya, showing its defences and two large cardboard arrows indicating the US plan of attack to take the two main bridges. told investigators that they had heard rumors of the sergeant carrying out similar
In 1946, the prime minister ordered the shelling of Haiphong, killing 6,000 Vietnamese. Thats a lot of people and a lot of heartache. Nearby, in a battered old Volga, peppered with ammunition holes, an Iraqi woman - perhaps the girl's mother - was dead, slumped in the back seat. Next time don't play! I had friends in the 101st, and it was definitely not happening then. Several taxis were destroyed by helicopter gunships as they drove down the road. Of course, the Kerry campaign and most of the press blew off the pieces I wrote for NRO in January and for National Review in February as an attempt to question his service in Vietnam. French girl engaged to German soldier follows him into prison compound after his capture near Orleans by U.S. forces. (And by the way, its no less true for most of the major movies about the war. where is the discussion of atrocities in Karnow or other popular readers?! Given how large the canon of Vietnam War photojournalism is and the level of infamy much of it has achieved, it may be surprising to learn that a wellspring of Vietnam War photos from a source other than photojournalists has been largely ignored: the works of military photographers. series of investigative reports exposing a string of atrocities by an elite,
Two soldiers watch as a suspected Viet Cong house collapses into flames. Such leadership was not in evidence at My Lai, or most of the other cases of atrocities. It's very difficult to distinguish between the fighters and civilians." Solders climb a ladder into a Chinook helicopter during Operation Cedar Falls. If you break both of these rules, please, make sure there arent any American soldiers around. After the Vietnamese defeat of French colonialism in 1954, the Geneva Conference . understand the war, we must understand America"-and, in doing so, we. GIs" but instead stem from what historian Christian Appy has termed the
It remains to be seen if both events will end the same, but just as Saigon fell as soon as American protection left, I fear the fall of Baghdad to terrorists as soon as we pull our troops out. Toledo Blade draws upon and feeds off this exceptionalist argument to
It was the middle of the Vietnam War, and things were going as badly . The M Lai massacre, the most well-known war crime committed during the Vietnam War, occurred on 16 March 1968 and was made public in November 1969. Jennifer Rosenberg. There were loud cheers as the sound of the heaviest artillery yet to pound Nasiriya shook the ground. He kept it a secret and, if hes still alive, continues to do so today. Find in-depth analysis and coverage of world politics, economics, business, finance, science and more If we add up all of the atrocities, both proven and alleged, and multiply them by two as a hedge against under-reporting, the percentage of American combat soldiers who might have committed atrocities is still less than one percent of the total. Proudly created withWix.com. The common-sense meaning of the statement that "over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command" seems to be that these accounts represent only the tip of the iceberg and more importantly, that such actions represented US policy against the Vietnamese.